ZC inny Strategy - Gameplay tactics and much more!!!!!

[AtheNA[BF]]

ZC Strategy

Hi everyone! I?m making this thread not just for me, but all the active players. In short, I would like for players (active and non-active) to post gameplay tactics. Now, I know some of you will say, ?Go watch reps?.  I have watched many ZCT reps and I?m sure you all have too. What I?m most curious about is the ?thought process?. For example, what are gameplay tactics that you as a player really like to see your team or a particular race do? Or even perhaps not do?  What are tactics that are regrettably underused? What are tactics that are simply overused? What race or races do you think have been under performing (not maximizing their full potential) in games? These are just some possible questions but not limited to consider, if you decide to respond.  I feel that all of us playing are fully capable of building a decent base in the allotted MM times? as well as massing units.  However, what separates us is very simple to spot?. It?s decision making. Better players usually are able to analyze a situation swiftly and accurately respond to it. So, for the sake of the ZCL community and the better overall quality in games, please contribute in some way to this post.   

I really look forward to your replies. If this thread only helps one person, then it did its job (I hope it?s beneficial to us all in some way though).  Let?s try to keep any drama out of this thread please, as this is only to help. 

Good luck to all those starting back up with the new school year. 

[Pr1meIVI]

This is an awesome thread.

What separates great zc players to good zc players is the ability to utilize each team member's strength's and provide back up on team player's weaknesses.

I'll blantly explain what goes on my head during PROTOSS since its what im most confident in playing with when I was in my prime but I prolly don't think this way anymore so you can't use it against me during games now.

BRB for now.

[AtheNA[BF]]

Thanks Jay! 

That is exactly what I'm looking for, for people to share!

[law[bf]]

Best tip that i can give is:

Make units and use them.

U got arbs? use them. Pr1me normally spreads 2 groups arbs trow mid to rc. Others players makes a line, like ewie, others send 1 and rc more arbs (maxine). A classic move: mm rc fail, wat does p normally? He goes (good exponentes: 3oo or taps). Imo doesnt really matter how do u rc or use use ur units, just use them. Wat about ice tanks? ice guards? ice wraiths?

U can do w.e with ur units, its just about practice and experience.

[killer]

i know i dont play and i dont know how games are now. they could be completely different than months ago but this thread always interested me. how surya and looose could beat me with 10 starports vs my 30 i just didnt understand.. amazing.. anyway strategy in this game always interested me most so ill say what I used to do.. which is not particularly the best.. people play differently so you need to play how they do.. playing the same way everygame wont help you it will hurt you. need maNY strategies to win alot..

for p my thought process was RECALL. but i was just having fun.. prolly lost more than i won if i just wanted to recall.. but it could actually work if u put like 8 temps in mid and u have a good terran. recall AWAY. id always try to mess with terran.. cuz i played terran most and i think its the most important race. 70% recalled them first 25% recall protoss first 5% zerg. if the zerg was good like looose or einen.. id try to recall them first and storm. but mostly mess up terran easiest way to win. i usually sent my arbs on the wall. same path worked alot.. but then i got sneaky. recalling through mid ectect. if i recalled 3 arbs 1-2-3 hotkeys 4th hotkey would be all of them together so i could dodge emp. when u recall kinda obvious to watch where ur arbs going.. but idk. when i recalled i liked to bring my arb family with me and keep recalling. my favorite part of p was doing that. i sent arbs everywhere one at p one at t 2 zerg just randomly cuz most the time one will make it. again not the best ideas.. but this is what i did. surya was my favorite p. guy was really amazing.. sick control sneaky recalls his mass was amazing.. i still dont know how he did it. i think people dont temp mid enough. u plague and storm once guards die.. makes terran job THAT much easier. i dont think people understand how easy that is. people that forget defiler should just not play zerg but ill get to that later. p base isnt as important as terran but control n decision making is whats most important imo. surya/thunder were just unreal.. STATIS WRIATH when they come mid temp mid get a good mass. dont recall if u have a weak terran and they go mid. ya big mistake by me..

terran. i was never really good at terran imo i just played it really easily.. i think people try too hard. terran is the most difficult race imo to master and the most important in ptz but i just didnt play it THAT hard.. my build was incredibly easy if anyone saw it. i didnt make that many tanks at mm but i definitiley should have. my anti at mm was a bit of a problem but if i survived first wave i usually won.. just pusha.. nobody pushes tanks i never understood it. i used to see tanka leave like 20 tanks at mid till while they went mid until 50 minutes he knew he would win. just dumb.. push with a swarm u will win 30 mins earlier.. but people never knew how to zerg. build is important with terran build ur stars LATE and get wriath. i always kept my wriaths together cuz i couldnt split and harrass like looose/thunder/infinity did but i liked keeping my wriaths together on sides. i liked to put vessels on corners of walls and ghost in between n random ghost everywhere. when u go mid EMP TEMPS AND DEFILERS. arie was my favorite terran.

nobody ever played zerg like me and im not sure why. i would never change anything about my zerg. parasite everything ensnare everything plague everything swarm. 15 queens 15 defilers ftw. if every guard isnt red and green i got mad. parasite so much more important than people think. was really hard to recall vs me. i snared you before you even left. if they come mid plague guard/wriath and snare. try to swarm when units dying and u save mid.. if i had a good terran and a p that could use a templar i could save mid without ANY guards.. make drones with late larva and build hatches with them get you larva. thats why i built 3 hatches in mid and 3 hatches on the side of the regular base before mm to have extra larva. i made like 150 drones but idk what the best was.. i didnt play zerg too much but was alot of fun. i always tried to nydus when i could and take down terran. zerg alot more important than people think. its really not the slave race. if ur p can recall and ur t can lead parasite will win u the game. if ur terran is good mid and u keep swarming and plaguing that will win u the game. having 4 sets of guards as opposed to 5 1/2 makes no sense to me id rather have defiler/queens and 4 sets. idk what anyone thinks or how the 'right' way to play zerg was but i always loved my zerg. hatching mid more important than ppl think. remassing fast important.. but really easy. never really had a favorite zerg.

thats how the white boy played zc EASY

[AtheNA[BF]]

Thank you so much Scotty for your post.

I agree with you on Zerg being downplayed and undervalued. A couple nights ago I played like 4 games with GN[FDU] and Megix. I had a lot of fun in those games even though I lost some. Both of them played Zerg at one point and their game play was very methodical. It was refreshing how when they Zerged, they could hold mid pretty much on their own with some terran support.

And yes, something I definitely don't do enough and my Zerg pays the price for it.... is EMPing temps and defilers. I usually do it late or I just don't have the vessels with the energy.

Thanks for mentioning this, "People play differently so you need to play how they do.. playing the same way every game wont help you it will hurt you."

I often tell my teammates common tactics of the opposing team or player (Like temp drop/fast tech recall). Also it has helped me change in how I play too. I was in love with your build and obsessed with wraiths. So I would make a huge base... and 8 tanks, lol. Players like Thunder/trippy/Law/Prime/Taps would take full advantage of this at MM+1 and clobber me. It really forced me to change my build and unit composition. I'm still not perfect at it, but I'm trying.

And finally, having hatcheries in mid is super important. I think sometimes Zerg player get sick of rebuilding them, but having that buffer in the mid is truly invaluable.

Thank you!!!

[thunder]

if u host a rep i can talk you through the decision making process. read this if u guys want haha.
this is more of a guide than decision making because of the possible scenarios...

tips:
-be aware of what you are doing and what you can do to better the game situation.
-note that there are so many diverse situations it's difficult to cover tips on everything, but here are the general rules

(P-perspective):
=hotkeys: 1 - 6 for units, 7 arbs, f2 main, f3 left gates, f4 right gates

-sometimes patience is the key-- lot of people go mid alone and tell teammates to stay. by doing this, you must make sure u can use your temps/stasis/zealots to tanks to the best ability. if you dont, its a waste of time, effort and minerals

-when you are winning, keep the other team busy. if you made a good recall, keep recalling or keep going mid to put pressure on that person's eco. if you are losing, again, be patient. dont make a stupid recall only to hope that the other team doesnt come mid and rape u.

-microing observers is SO important. dont send them out randomly only for them to die. if you build 2 late robos, best placement for obs is 3 on each side ridge, and 2 on middle of ridge. if only 1 late robo, keep obs on your ridge and move them out when terran is ready. communicate.

(T-perspective)
=hotkeys: 1-4 wraiths, 5 vessels, 6-8 tanks, f2 main, f3 ports, f4 facts

-with terran, its not easy because you basically always have to be doing something to be efficient. what sets me apart i think is vessel use... its one of the more important units in zc. emp tech, irri zerg/miners, matrix certain tanks that zealots are attacking.

-if you are 50/50 on tanks and wraiths, its ideal to keep clearing sides with vessels. communicate with p for obs. if you have lets say, 2 sets/2sets, keep 1 set on each side so it makes the other p think twice about recalling there. patrolling is an option instead of leaving 1 set afk while you clear with the other set. playing sides is a mind game.

-use tanks smartly. avoid pushing tanks into sieged tanks/guards. if enemy pushes with guards, unsiege and pull back. it saves you time and money for remassing.

-personally, avoid air battles. it never ends well for either side and its a waste.

(Z-perspective)
=hotkeys: 1-6 guards, 7 defilers, 8 queens, f2 main, f3 base, f4 base

-watch where u fucking attack with guards. 90% of people just 1a2a3a4a guards and cry when their guards die... come on. spread them too. target certain things if u can, micro.

-normally terran gives the shots on z what to do. it is appropriate to break away from this and tell the terran what to do-- emp mid, anti you, cover which side, when to attack mid.

-z is such a support race in any game type-- 2v2 low, fmp, bgh, etc. use tech... simple as that. defilers are one of the greatest units in the game. 3 defilers mid, 3 defilers at main, and 3 gaining energy is minimum. once you have a lot of money, use those drones to make d around your base. listen to your teammates and collaborate on decisions.

-parasite for vision, WATCH FOR NYDUS on your terran. nyduses probably change the course of the game 180* the most.

[thunder]

I will try to keep this "brief", sectioned into stages of the game for each race... Whoever reads this (lisa) should get a good feel of decision-making i hope.. i hope this sorta promotes the interest of some people to get better as well.

Decision making:
PROTOSS

Pre-mm:
-build. its better to have base done early than go for possible full base lates because of the risk of not knowing when mm will be exactly.

-important: 2 late robo and 3 late stargates is ideal. dedicate the latest 2 gateways to templars, initial (3) rows of gateways to zealots and the rest to dragoons. this will give you what i think is the best unit distribution (your responsibility to queue).

MM to MM+~4:
-when you dump your building probes, spread them out to get a good scout of the other team.
-be wary of the style of the other p. its usually the protoss that takes the offensive first.
   -if you want to play safe, obs your side and spread your units out on your side.
   -if you want to play aggressive, i would go mid. i prefer going mid than recalling because the terrans are prepared with anti specifically for a recall right after mm. terrans usually have a lack of tanks because of this. usually at mm, your protoss mass should consist of a lot of zealots, archons and temps and less of goons. use this unit distribution to your advantage-- storm the scvs because they will get in your way and kill the tanks with goons. there is a 2nd reason why its good to go mid first and that is because it just about forces the other p to use stasis. at the end of the battle, you still have your arbs to use at your disposal, while the other p just used his. another reason to go mid is that it prevents the other zerg to use his mutas and bomb your terran's tanks/scvs.

Mid-game:
alright so the game defintely diverges here. there are too many possibilities, so i'm going to try to post from my point of view.

-assuming that you deflect any deadly recall, pump obs and take sides.
   -if you dont take sides and you have gone middle first before, then i would suggest to keep pressure mid. when the game is young, its difficult to lose the game outright this early, so the best choice would be to go mid.
   -if you do    take sides, pinpoint a good place to recall. recalling can make the other team go panic mode and blame each other (atetanka). if you can take the offensive early, it puts your team in a great spot as it takes a LOT of pressure off your team. it allows your terran to take sides at their pace, gain eco and harass, while it allows your zerg to rack up extra gas and get energy for his defilers/queens, and parasite. it is more important to spread your recalls across the map than to attempt to make a huge recall in a single spot, i.e. a main. (example: recall twice shallow p, once deep terran). diversity works as a great tactic.
      -if you choose to recall, make sure you have either a)obs/wraith/anti at your side or b)at least 2 arbs at your base, as this will save you from an incoming recall. although at this point of the game, it might not be completely necessary yet, it would be very nice for mid to have about 4 temps. depending on when their z makes guards, they might counter.

-now, assuming that you didnt deflect a recall and you (P) got recalled and your eco is hurt badly, the obvious thing is to sit back. there is no need for you to put pressure at this time as it will only hurt you more. instead, try to mass a couple extra arbs and obs. take defense for a couple minutes-- spread your mass along your side and tech mid. dont burden your terran with having to anti your side even more while watching zerg too.
   -suppose you lost your main (sigh...) your best option is

ill finish this later

[ATETANKA]

I really wanna read the baddie point of view. Sometimes when i see baddies in real time. I stop what im doing and just admire. Stronger[bf] 3oo[mb] brat[bf] please help me get a deeper understanding of what is really going on.

[Pr1meIVI]

So, I've noticed very few people play zerg with pride (stronger[BF]) or are half decent but I'd like to help everyone who don't know how to play and build zerg with some tips and strategies since we barely have any really good zerg players out of the top 5.  I learned zerg from GN[FDU] and there isnt anyone else you'd rather wanna learn zerg from than GN, maybe megix but his mind can't keep up with his hands nowadays haha and tr0uble but who know's when he'll make his comeback that big foig.

You're not going to hear any of this from GN himself but GN[FDU] was an all-around Z player, fastest masser ZC has known, very solid middle with defilers plague, he barely ever swarmed since it never seemed needed, middle would always be para'd, not a heavy tech user but rebuilding mid is very important which he immediately did when needed.

ZERG BUILD 101
Every race has a different style of build in regards of order gaining minerals and gas but I found zerg to have the most common and easiest build which is mass drones and mine as much minerals as you can til 7mins (given you are using a timer).
The goal for zerg during the building phase is 140 drones(ideal) and enough overlords to put you at 200.  This will help map the max a lot faster in games these days.  Good zerg?s usually determine how fast the map is going to max since they should be swarming with larva if performed correctly.
One thing I?ll remind you is never forget overlords!! Too many replays I?ve seen lately where people are stuck and can?t build anymore drones because of psi problems. NEVER FORGET OVERLORDS!
Ok, build time; the order of build is very very basic for the first row, build as much drones and finish you're first row by 4-4:15minutes, you should have about 35-40 drones at this time. I usually put 21 drones in the middle stack and spread 10/11 gathering just to help me count my drones easier.  Then I continue by building drones and send them off to the right mineral patch ONLY (so the left mineral patch is still empty) and once I hit 45-50 drones, I build my spawning pool and 1 gas extractor. Very simple. Next, you might have to start clicking a lot faster to utilize your larva.  I start to build more drones and send to the left mineral patch until I reach 55 psi, but also send 4 drones to the gas as soon as the extractor is complete.  Once you are done here, build you?re second row between 530-540. After, mass drones and DON?T FORGET OVERLORDS, pay attention to your psi max.  It becomes very very simple from here on regarding , you just have to be quick with your fingers and make sure you utilize every single piece of larva you have.  Continue making drones until you have about 80-85 and send to the left mineral patch, then build you?re third row before 630-640. After completing you?re third row, you should have 75-78 psi. Good job, you have 3 rows under 7 minutes, you are better than half of the current ZC community.  Don?t quit now, you gotta continue rolling and build the rest of your gas extractors and build drones. Somehow, some way, you will have to build drones and make drones gather gas for 40-50 seconds.  People have different orders of distributing drones to the extractors but I put 4 each, while some people put 4 on the corners and 3 in the middle. Pay attention to your timer and your amount of drones, usually I would stop building drones at 745 in a 815 mm game. Hopefully you?ll have 140 drones by 740-750 with this strat, and with all that excess drones, you MUST make main D, in defense against RC?s/muta bombs/temp drops, you don?t want to end up the black sheep on the team because you got attacked by either of those.  When MM hits, middle hatches ASAP. With the main hatches, build queens and def?s and spread you?re queens with ensare to stop Rc?s or temp drops or muta?s from attacking.  This is the best way I can explain how to play and build zerg pre MM?

Ill continue later?.

[Pr1meIVI]

Similiar Post by Psilocin awhile ago.


nice thread idea!
i got some beginner zerg tips that work for me

when making units i do:
- cntrl + click larva; cntrl + 1,2,3,ect. (to group larva); then select unit (much easier to group your units before you make them)

base tips:
- don't make too many overlords before you finish your 3 rows (you need all the minerals you can get for hatch)
- /80 is more than enough to finish 3 rows before 6:30
- if you build your hatches in the same order left to right every game you will eventually start to remember the order your larva pops up
  (definitely helps with speed early in game)
- use drones mining on side mineral patches to finish building your extractors (the side angle makes sure they won't get stuck)
- if map max is going to be 8:15 you need to make sure your done with drones/overlords by 7:45
- don't make pool/first gas extractor later than 5:00 or you won't have muta in time for first rc
- the faster/better you are at getting sunks/spores on main... the more respect toss players give you and the less you get recalled deep
- always try to finish your base hatches before the enemy zerg does

unit tips:
- 6 queens before mm is good number imo (spaced evenly along your team's wall)
- try to keep at least 7 defilers mid at all times (always plague first then swarm)
- try to always keep your gaurds by spores in middle or spores by your main (never out in the open)
- send 3 ovies with your gaurds when you go mid (if you send less the enemy ran is tempted to just kill the ovies first)
- bring a defiler behind your mass with you when you go mid (a nice plague on enemy wraiths really makes a difference)
- keep defilers in mid burrowed to hid from emp/para

strategy tips:
- protect your terran's main/starports at all costs (a good zerg is worthless without their terran)
- try to never attack with muta unless its to protect your terran's main on first rc
- para enemy units that don't get frequently used (deep ovies/tanks, defilers in middle, ghosts at wall)
- always micro temps first... storm is the zerg's worst enemy
- if you notice your gas is starting to dip below 8k start mixing in hyds with gaurds (ovie drops work well if you still have 3/4 sets gaurd)
- if your toss is recalling enemy terran main try to send a queen (cc infest is extremely effective whether they try to repair or not)
- if you get shallowed by enemy toss and your gaurds are in the middle... fly to your main and attack vertically not horizontally from middle
  (this way you can retreat easier if you get doubled with wraiths and also use gaurd's range advantage over goons)
- if you get shallowed by enemy toss don't be afraid to sacrifice some hatches to save some gaurds
  (much easier to collect more minerals than to collect more gas)

ADDED:

**NEVER HAVE GUARDS SITTING IDLE** if you see arbs coming, move them, esspecially if your protoss is rcing, make sure you have ur guards at their base watching for the counter. alot of times when the toss is getting rc'd, ur allied zerg has to come, wraiths are meant for sides, clearning, and leading.

[GN[FDU]]

ADDED:

**NEVER HAVE GUARDS SITTING IDLE** if you see arbs coming, move them, esspecially if your protoss is rcing, make sure you have ur guards at their base watching for the counter. alot of times when the toss is getting rc'd, ur allied zerg has to come, wraiths are meant for sides, clearning, and leading.

I think never sitting idle should be in general not just guards. For Protoss and Terran, that goes without saying. They are always doing something. Some play Zerg like it's a lazy man's race. Yeah, it may be the simplest, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't always be doing something.

My main pet peeve about Zerg players these days, they never go mid. If you have 3 sets of guards, GO MIDDLE. ZERG DICTATES when to go middle. If your allies can't go middle, they will let you know, and you can easily back off.

If you're not going middle, parasite. There is always something that needs to be parasited. If no queens, then attack middle with 2-3 guards. You'll be surprised at how much damage they can do. Even if they don't do much damage, you will annoy the hell out of the other Terran player. If and when you see those wraiths coming to kill your 3-4 guardians attacking middle, get a defiler ready to plague. Most Terrans attack a small group of units with 3+ sets of wraiths when less than one set is needed - easy plague.

If you're not good at ensnaring the arbitars, have your guards ready to help out. As soon as you see the arbitar(s) coming, start moving your guardians to where you think they will recall.

[AtheNA[BF]]

GN[FDU] - I think never sitting idle should be in general not just guards. For Protoss and Terran, that goes without saying. They are always doing something. Some play Zerg like it's a lazy man's race. Yeah, it may be the simplest, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't always be doing something.

Someone give this man a medal and a hug for this simple, yet very important advise.

[Mast-I-Kater]

If you're not going middle, parasite. There is always something that needs to be parasited. If no queens, then attack middle with 2-3 guards. You'll be surprised at how much damage they can do. Even if they don't do much damage, you will annoy the hell out of the other Terran player. If and when you see those wraiths coming to kill your 3-4 guardians attacking middle, get a defiler ready to plague. Most Terrans attack a small group of units with 3+ sets of wraiths when less than one set is needed - easy plague.

Haha, I loved doing this back before I quit... I think I picked it up from you actually Keeps rran occupied so well, and if they are busy, you can easily take out a ton of middle with very little cost. Eventually they either stop sending wraiths because you keep plaguing, or get caught up in the dance.

[Ah-Lee]

it's easy
you got to be a G + Swag = OWN